He hasn’t had a break out season though which he will need to get in because he is probably the most underrated pitcher of the decade (besides Roy Oswalt who is a better pitcher then Buehrle but without the no-nos and the WS).

Getting better or continuing success as you get older is much more common in pitcher, especially breaking ball pitchers, then it is in hitters because of timing and smarts. Greg Maddux and Mike Mussina are prefect examples of that shit

Blake makes the point about Buerhle being the only Chicago based pitcher who has been good for a signifcant period of time. I know this is going to make you cringe.

Carlos Zambrano has been pitching for the Cubs for nine years (one less than Buerhle) has a better career ERA (3.47), higher winning percentage (.613), and a ton more strikeouts (1271). I don’t think anyone is talking about Z being a shoe in for the hall of fame. Numbers don’t lie.

You are fucking high. “Koufax towards the end of his career”? Everyone backs off the heat as they get older, but Sandy spent most of his career STRIKING MOTHERFUCKERS OUT (side note: caps do not denote yelling, you just can’t bold stuff in comments sections). And yes, I ignored the Maddux comparison because I don’t see it. No way he’s better than Maddux. You’re def seeing this whole thing through Sox colored glasses. Maddux was an intimidator. You don’t win 15 or more games in so many consecutive seasons by being serebral. You do it by being the guy nobody wants to face. You do it by striking out 3371 batters in your career. Arguing velocity is almost moot when you consider that pitchers are getting faster. Maddux was throwing in the mid 80′s when most guys (Nolan Ryan excluded) were topping out in the mid 90′s. Buehrle’s throwing in the mid 80′s in an era where guys can throw upwards of 110. The stats aren’t a wash. Gold gloves and win totals matter. Even if Maddux’s numbers are only fractionally better, they’re still better. You can’t make the argument that a guy whose stats don’t stack up (especially taking longevity of dominance into account) based on two outings. The no-hitter perfect game combination is enough to get a guy who’s on the bubble over the hump and into Cooperstown, but barring a career that lasts another decade where his numbers actually improve (you know the way Papi Ortiz’s did?) Buehrle’s not even on the bubble. Being a hometown hero is not the same as being a Hall of Famer. Writers from all over the country vote on the HOF ballot and the big picture painted by Buhrle’s career won’t be enough.

Albeit there have been only 15 pitchers, since 1954, that have thrown 2 or more no hitters.

4-In the Hall: Spahn, Bunning, Koufax and Ryan
1-Should get in Hall: Randy Johnson
1-Shouldn’t get in the Hall: Nomo
8-Didn’t get into the Hall: Busby, Chance, Forsch, Holtzman, Jones, Maloney…

This leaves out Mark Buehrle. As I said before, his chances are very small, he needs more than just the two no-no’s. He doesn’t have, or project to have, enough wins, K’s, or a strong enough ERA. Nor has he been considered one of the 5 best pitchers of his era.

BTW, Maddux struck out over 3,000 hitters, and had a run from 1992-1998 where he 127-53, had over 1200 k’s, 4 Cy Youngs and an ERA of 2.15! That says dominance to me

No, you don’t get ripped for being objective. You get ripped for forgetting your birth control and playing too safe. It’s a yes or no question and you answered “Ya-No”.

@Sean_Hef:

Meushbag rhymes with #-of-consecutive-soccer-posts.

Annnnd you might be the king of grotesque beards.

@WildBill:

Fair Enough. A valid argument. But I’m not backing off Buerhle’s HOF entry. And, no, we wouldn’t be having this conversation if Buerhle gave up a bloop single… a walk? Maybe.

@All 3 of you meushbags:

You all completely ignored the Buerhle to Maddux comparison. 100%. Now, that’s either because you think it’s completely ridiculous and holds no water OR that it’s just a casual ignoring of the argument I’m using to prove my point.

I Might be willing to bend a little bit if Buerhle did this as a one-time, flash-in-the-pan type of accomplishment. Because the sun shines even on a dog’s ass some days. But he did it twice. Against formidable offensive lineups. In U.S. Cellular Field.

Yes, guys like Schilling, Santana, The Big Unit, Pedro, Cy Young, Nolan Ryan, et al do/did throw smoke and ring up Ks, but Greg Maddux did neither. Is anybody arguing his induction? No. He, like Buerhle, went about his business every five days and tried to do it in as few pitches as possible.

Guys throwing smoke and stacking up Ks are a dime a dozen. The cerebral pitchers like Maddux and Buerhle (and Koufax towards the end of his career) are the special types of pitcher that too often is overlooked.

Buerhle’s BEEN awesome for 8 outta 9 years (he pitched an extremely limited amount of time in his rookie year so I’m not counting it). He’s a friggin clydesdale. He’s the best pitcher Chicago’s seen since… Name me a pitcher for either Chicago team that did it for longer AND was a part of a WS winner for the City?

Yes, all championships are the result of a team effort, team efforts contribute heavily to a pitcher’s wins, which is why wins is a shallow measurement for a pitcher’s success (as mentioned in Monty’s forum piece, Buerhle has more wins than Curt Schilling).

The bottom line here is that Mark Buerhle does the same things that future HOF’er Greg Maddux does AND he did it in the tougher half of the majors in a hitter’s park. And he did it, until 2011 anyways, in one uniform. There’s something to be said for a player in today’s game that did it wearing the same hat. Hitters know exactly how MB is approaching every at-bat in every situation–the same they did with Maddux–and they still can’t figure him out.

That’s dominance. That’s greatness. That’s Cooperstown.

Yeah, Buehrle’s gonna have to be awesome for like five or six years in row and then maybe we can talk about him realistically getting in. Buehrle’s not a world beater. Blue Collar dude. No matter what he’ll be imortalized on the Southside when he’s done. I think a lot of Sox have their “Buehrle Goggles” when it comes to all this HOF talk. I say he shaves his beard. It’s pretty gross.

Blake. Relax. Have some dip, and let’s try to take emotion out of it. I know you’re about as jacked up as JoJo the idiot circus when he gets a new pet right now since the salty / bleachy taste of the perfect game is still as fresh in your mouth as last night’s weed and hooker spit. But you can’t just go around saying that things like strike outs, velocity, win totals, cy youngs and winning percentage shouldn’t be taken into account by HOF voters.

We need to ask ourselves if we’d even be having this discussion if he’d walked a batter last week, or given up a groundball with eyes, a bloop single, whatever. I say no. Is the combination of a no-no a perfect game and a WS save impressive? Yes. Is it grounds for induction? Not hardly. Any pitcher can show flashes of brilliance, even 3 times. The difference between Buehrle and the other five perfection/no-no owners is that Koufax, Johnson, Young, Joss and Bunning were all dominant pitchers, guys who threw smoke, struck the shit out of people, won a fuckload of games, had low ERA’s and three of them either won Cy Young awards or had the Cy Young Award NAMED AFTER THEM.

HOF inductions are about individual statistics, not team accomplishments. And like it or not, no-hitters and perfect games are team efforts (Thank you Dewayne Wise). Buehrle’s individual stats are good, but not great – and certainly not Hall of Fame great.

Don’t get me wrong. What Mark’s done here is an amazing thing and my hat’s off to him. Even a northsider can pause and appreciate brilliance. But even in a discussion between three southsiders, you’ve got one fence sitter and one decided no.

In the end, Buehrle will be remembered as a great pitcher who played on some great Sox teams, but Cooperstown is reserved for really special players – and he’ll fall just short.